Julia Dixon Evans: Hello, Finest listeners. We have a different kind of episode today featuring a bunch of fun stuff. There's dive bars, a naked neighbor, orphaned bear cubs, and a great local podcast that we think you'll love if you love The Finest. And joining us is one of my favorite San Diego journalists.
Jakob McWhinney: I'm Jakob McWhinney.
McWhinney: I am a reporter at Voice of San Diego, and I'm also a host, co-host of the podcast, which we are sharing now.
Evans: You're gonna hear that podcast in just a minute. But first, something completely different: dive bars. You may have seen that KPBS recently launched a brand new website, thefinestsd.org. It's your guide to all the things that make San Diego America's finest: events, museums, food, and art, plus KPBS arts reporting that tells the stories of our community.
Evans: We're also creating lists of the best attractions in town with help from experts like Jakob, who's passionate about dive bars.
McWhinney: A dive bar at its best is not just a place that you can get a, a, a cheap drink. It's a place where you can be a regular. You know, you can be known, eh, you know, for, A- as Cheers said, where you can walk in and everybody will know your name, right?
McWhinney: I mean, that's like the ideal of a place, and those are the places that I think really build community.
McWhinney: I am a huge fan of a grimy dive bar. I want to be in there and have it either be as, have a sticky floor-
Evans: Mm-hmm ...
McWhinney: or I want there to be carpet, which is one of the most horrible things- Oh, yeah ... you can have in a dive bar. But I love it. I mean, I-
Evans: OK, so- Yeah ... I mean, this is like criteria we're talking about here.
Evans: Yes. So sticky floor or carpet.
McWhinney: Yeah. And it has to, you have to be able to tell that people used to smoke cigarettes in there. That's very important, you know?
Evans: Tell us about your favorite grimy dive bars in San Diego.
McWhinney: Yes. SRO is one of my favorite bars in San Diego. it is,historically,a, a gay bar, and it retains that sort of really exciting you-never-know-what's-gonna-happen thing.
McWhinney: and I love that they have incredibly strong drinks. Mm-hmm. So beware of that. also in Bankers Hill, just up the way is Cherry Bomb. I love Cherry Bomb. I've never been there. You've never been to Cherry Bomb? Mm-mm. OK. Go to Cherry Bomb, order one shot, and that's all you will need. They, they fill their shot glasses up all the way.
Bella Ross: Uh-huh.
McWhinney: It is, you know, a loud, kinda chaotic, bar, often playing metal or something like that, and it's just, it's delightful. It is exactly what you want in sort of a little hole-in-the-wall spot. I've, have always really loved Chi Chi Lounge downtown-
Evans: Mm-hmm ...
McWhinney: on Broadway. It is, one of those places that you just don't necessarily see a lot anymore.
McWhinney: You know, a regulars bar. it's a, it's a great spot. I love going there. I once, No, I'm not gonna g- s- say that story. But I once saw something very interesting on a Halloween night there. another one of my favorite bars, it's fairly close to my place, so I go all the time, is Cheers. It's like an old school gay bar over in University Heights.
McWhinney: it has the most garish carpet throughout the bar. and it's a custom carpet that has their logo, which is, like, Incredible. Yeah ... it's, it's beautiful. It is a beautiful space. the bartenders are so kind. They have a little smoking patio on the side that is also carpeted- ... which is just an incredible, incredible decision that I- Choices
Evans: are made
McWhinney: I, I salute them every time I go out there. For sure, choices were made, and they were the correct choices. and it's just such a homey, homey place that, you know, I'm, I'm very big on, on unpretentiousness, and it, and it feels that way through and through. It really is delightful.
Evans: You can see Jakob's full list, complete with a map of his picks, on thefinestsd.org.
Evans: When Jakob isn't exploring the city's remaining dive bars, you can find him on the Voice of San Diego podcast. Tell us about Voice of San Diego in general, and also the Voice of San Diego podcast. What kind of stuff do you cover?
McWhinney: Yeah. So Voice of San Diego is a local nonprofit investigative news outlet, and the goal of the podcast is to communicate in a very conversational and irreverent way the stories that we're producing.
McWhinney: We try to give people a better understanding into a world of politics and social stuff that may be murky, or they may not have the best understanding of, of, of how it works. So I think that you're gonna have fun listening to it in the same way that you do with The Finest.
Evans: can you tell us a little bit about this Critter Coroner episode?
Evans: The, the episode we're about to hear. What are we about to experience?
McWhinney: a bunch of weird stuff. You know, we, we, as I said, really try to not take ourselves seriously in the podcast. and then so, so in this episode we talk about, this HBO show, Neighbors, which contains perhaps one of my favorite, or not favorite-
McWhinney: but one of the most fascinating, like, local dudes that San Diego has to offer. Just an incredible, you know, specimen in, in, in strangeness. He's this guy Dan Smukowski. I've been following him on social media for maybe five years at this point. I was drawn in by his long shot and very strange mayoral and city council campaigns.
McWhinney: And I stayed for his really off-putting, you know, bikini photos. Mm-hmm. I don't know how it happened, but they could not have chosen a better s- guy. He has a conflict because, as I said, he likes to hang out naked, and his, his neighbors aren't a big fan of I think he's like a 70-year-old man, you know, working out in his garage naked.
McWhinney: and it launches this odyssey where the show producers try to find a place for him to exist in all of his glory. and it is a fascinating watch, and I could not, be more thankful to HBO for plucking this guy out of, you know, the fever swamp of- ... of his own life and putting him on television. and you know, I have to throw the asterisk in here that I do not endorse everything that Dan Smukowski thinks or says or does, but I endorse the fact that he exists.
Evans: All right. Love that. I also feel like it's worth mentioning that it's been maybe, like, five or six months since you taped this episode. Mm-hmm. You had no warning really that we were gonna talk about it. You have no notes in front of you. This just takes up space in your brain.
McWhinney: I am, I am passionate about-
McWhinney: about, about this. Yes.
Evans: Stick around. The Voice of San Diego podcast is up next
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Welcome to The Voice of San Diego podcast, in partnership with News Radio 600 KOGO. I'm Andrea Santas Villafaña, Managing Editor at Voice of San Diego, and I'm joined today by Bella Ross and Jakob MacMullen. Hey. What's up, guys?
McWhinney: How
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: are you? How are you?
McWhinney: I'm surviving. Wow. You know, it's, it's another long week, but I'm good.
McWhinney: Yeah.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Getting through. Getting through. I love that. Scott Lewis is not here today, and that's fine by us, but he'll be back next week.
Bella Ross: More than OK. There was way too much testosterone on the last episode. I was listening this morning.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: We're balancing. We're balancing. It was
Bella Ross: just overflowing at the seams.
McWhinney: It was quite a boys party. I think we're
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: rectifying that today. It looks like it. You guys did a good job. coming up on the show, our favorite catastrophes reporter, Mackenzie Elmer, is joining us to discuss her latest story on why humans are to blame for two orphaned bear cubs. Sad story. We're hitting you guys with some sad stuff.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: That's all coming up. Bella, you caused me great harm yesterday.
Bella Ross: Right. I gave Andrea and Jakob some mandatory viewing for this episode.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: And I feel like you warned me that there would be nudity. But not in the way that there was nudity.
Bella Ross: Right. It, it's ver- it's kinda jarring. So we're talking about the finale episode of the new HBO Max series, Neighbors.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Which by the way, did you guys watch the other episodes?
Bella Ross: I watched some of them.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: OK. I'm gonna watch them.
McWhinney: Yeah, I watched, I watched a
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: couple. But if they're as cringy as this episode, I may not.
Bella Ross: They're not quite the same. They're, There's
McWhinney: markedly less nudity.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: OK.
McWhinney: That is true.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Less. Less.
Bella Ross: It's all very next door.
Bella Ross: I mean, it's the kind of issues that we peddle in- Yeah ... as local journalists, for sure. but-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: It's like Next Door comes to life ...
Bella Ross: it literally is. OK. but the finale of this show, if you haven't heard, features local legend Daniel Schmekowski, who if you are a journalist or anybody who's adjacent to politics, you might know of him as a local gadfly.
Bella Ross: He's run for office many times. He ran for mayor. He's run in District 2 multiple times. He's running in District 2 right now, actually. Is
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: he?
Bella Ross: I don't think he actually
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: qualified for the ballot, though. No, I don't think, yeah. Yeah. I think he just showed up to the candidate forum.
Bella Ross: He tried.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Mm-hmm. He tried. So the vibes are a candidate.
Bella Ross: Yeah, he gives perpetual candidate vibes.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Yes.
Bella Ross: But the reason that he was featured on the show was because of his decision to regularly work out in his driveway wearing nothing but a yellow thong bikini.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Mm-hmm.
Bella Ross: And his neighbors, including a nearby church, found that, quite upsetting.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Disturbing.
Bella Ross: Right.
Bella Ross: And I told them that, "OK, well, this is a San Diego issue. Like, we have to talk about this, but you guys will have to watch the episode and just, like, beware, though, like, it's like, there's a lot of nudity. Like, we can't watch it in the office. You need to, like, go home and do this-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Yeah ...
Bella Ross: on your own." And I get a text from Andrea.
Bella Ross: She's like, "You did not warn me." And I literally did, but it is
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: very kind of- No, you literally didn't. Like There, there was a- ... one thing is to say, like, "This man is in a Speedo." That's a thong. And so I assumed, like, I'm gonna get some views of his ass cheeks. No, no, no
McWhinney: There was a nudity warning. I don't know that there was a warning that there were, like, drippings and, and- Oh
McWhinney: things of this nature.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: That was, that would traumatize. Like, I can't.
Bella Ross: Well, the thing is, is when you're watching the episode, there's all these, like, allusions to, like, nudists, and basically at one point in the episode, he, moves over to Florida for a week to try living in a nudist colony. And so everybody's naked.
Bella Ross: You're seeing, like, everybody's double cheeked up. Like, they're not hiding anything. And it is kind of alarming when you're watching the episode. Like, as soon as he arrives in the nudist colony, he just, like, strips down and, like, you're like, "Oh, we're doing this." Well,
McWhinney: actually,
Bella Ross: I-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: No. You gotta... OK. So he's like, he- they're giving some background into who he is and a little bit of his life.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Like, they mention that he, you know, had ran for office several times in San Diego, and that was the moment it clicked for me that I actually moderated a, a forum that he was on. And I remember, I specifically remember he said something mean to me about Voice of San Diego. But, like, everything else, I don't remember.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Like, I don't remember what questions I asked him during the panel. I don't remember what his answers were, if he even had any. Like, I just, like, blocked that out- He- ... I, for some reason ...
McWhinney: and he is a prolific commenter on- Yes ... voiceofsandiego.org.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Yeah, like 300 plus comments. I actually checked. Oh, yeah. Or 500 plus.
McWhinney: Hopefully
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: he's done. Hopefully. so they, like, go into this background, and he, like, shows his OnlyFans account, which, like, shows his, like, nude photos and very graphic, very up close images- ... of his private parts that traumatized me. but then I love this bit. So before he moves to Florida, he, like, Googles, "Places I can be naked where people won't be mad at me."
McWhinney: Th- all of this, this whole part felt like it was kind of hiding the ball. you know, reality shows obviously do a lot of prompting behind the scenes- Yeah ... but this felt like-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: No, it d- it felt genuine ...
McWhinney: it, no, it felt like the producers were like, "Hey, let's have you move to this place or go visit for a week just for the sh- the purposes of the show."
Bella Ross: Oh, OK. Well, I think that's exactly what happened 'cause I read- Yeah ... some interviews- And he, he
McWhinney: talks about it in the interviews ...
Bella Ross: yeah, they're like, "Well, have you ever tried this? Would you be down to try it?" And I mean, like, I think why I wanted to talk about this on the episode, because you can go watch it yourself and, and get that whole story, is because he's- Warning, he's
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: naked
Bella Ross: yeah, with a huge warning on it. But, Many,
McWhinney: many-
Bella Ross: It's- ...
McWhinney: many warnings ...
Bella Ross: this guy has, like, a long time reputation in San Diego for, like, honestly being pretty problematic. I mean, Scott-
McWhinney: Yeah ...
Bella Ross: there's probably a reason you guys didn't talk about this last week, 'cause Scott really doesn't like this guy.
McWhinney: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bella Ross: and-
McWhinney: And, and I think there are lots of good reasons. He is not a paragon of virtue, you know, clothing- unclothed or not.
Bella Ross: No, I mean, even I remember when I worked at the Union-Tribune in the opinion section, he was a very prolific letter writer, constantly writing letters. I was going through some of them before this, and almost all of them refer to France-
Bella Ross: in one way or another. Like,
McWhinney: he has a- Well, as, as he says in the show, his mom did live on the beaches of Normandy during D-Day.
Bella Ross: Right. Yeah, that's- And their
McWhinney: house was destroyed during the invasion ...
Bella Ross: that's abundantly clear. he, you ha- there's all these, like, old essays that he's pub- published over the years that have, like, very kind of inconsistent political ideologies.
Bella Ross: Like, at one point he's saying the trolley needs to be on the beach, but he's also, like, very anti-bike lane. Mm-hmm. But he's also, like-
McWhinney: Mm-hmm ...
Bella Ross: a very passionate cyclist.
McWhinney: And he's a v- he's very passionate about, you know, health, body health. He at one point says that he wants to bring Make Ameri- America Healthy Again to San Diego.
McWhinney: in, in, in one just incredibly unhinged Times of San Diego opinion piece, he not only talks about his MAHA stuff and how he's against bike lanes but in favor of bicycling, but also just, like, happens to throw in, like, an anti-trans thing in there for no discernible reason. It's just he, he is kind of a schizophrenic personality in that way.
Bella Ross: Yeah, and I think after the show came out, his, OnlyFans apparently h- following increased by 20,000%. OK,
McWhinney: so I did a little bit of research on this.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: What that means- I actually wanted to fact check that, but I was, like, afraid, like, I was, like, afraid of the process I'd
McWhinney: have
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: to-
McWhinney: Yes ... do. It wasn't, it wasn't a very long process.
McWhinney: OK. So I, I, I paused it, 'cause they show his, the homepage of his OnlyFans- Oh. Oh ... i- in the, in the show. I pause it. He had at, up to that point, two likes on his entire profile. People had liked two pieces of content that he'd posted on OnlyFans, and he is, you know, posts links to his OnlyFans quite often- Mm-hmm
McWhinney: on Twitter. So I looked at his OnlyFans now, and he has, like, 147 likes. So he says in interviews that his fol- following has increased by 20,000%. I think that's very hyperbolic. I don't think two likes to 147 constitutes 20,000%
Bella Ross: A little bit. Tomato, tomato.
McWhinney: Yeah.
Bella Ross: But yeah, aft- after this came out, you know, he clearly felt very vindicated because it's clear that, you know, his neighbors are framed as these, like, terrible closed-minded bullies.
McWhinney: Clothes-minded bullies.
Bella Ross: Clothes-minded bullies and,
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: What's up with the guy who's, like, decked out in Green Bay Packer stuff?
Bella Ross: Right. So I'm like, I, like, literally could not think of a more perfect person to be the, like, face of San Diego on a national stage- ... like, somebody, like this crazy. but, you know, supposedly he got a bunch of messages after the episode, like, supporting him from all of these people, and I think that, like, he's a very endearing character, and I personally just, like, love Like, any singular character like this, I'm just so fascinated by.
Bella Ross: but I think it is our job as local journalists who have been getting emails from him for years to say that he is actually crazy in a bad way.
McWhinney: Yeah, I,
Bella Ross: I- In, in a lot of ways ...
McWhinney: as somebody who also kind of likes the sort of sideshow characters in our world, and thinks that having people like this, sideshow characters like this, is, like, one of the essential things of having a city and having, you know, discourse and having a civic world.
McWhinney: It's, unfortunately sometimes you have to see an, a really old guy's really wrinkly dick. you know, or, I mean, maybe not. At le- at least his butt cheeks, right? it, it is fascinating to see him ascend to this new level of notoriety. I, I don't think it was necessary, but it is fascinating to watch. And, and you're right in that he is not very sympathetic.
McWhinney: He's not a very sympathetic character. But at the same time, there is a humanity there that is- Yeah ... sort of moving. You
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: know- That's what I found interesting ...
McWhinney: even after all these years, he's still, like, desperately searching for love.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Yeah, and the family.
McWhinney: And a family. Yeah. And that is interesting. Yeah. I think it's great that he's searching for that, I guess.
McWhinney: Would I do that at his age on an HBO reality show? Probably not. But to each their own.
Bella Ross: Yeah, I was going through the comments, and, um, we had written a morning report about this. Yeah. And he commented on it and said something about- Oh, I was
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: wondering about that. Yeah ...
Bella Ross: yeah, he said something about all of us at Voice of San Diego having an IQ of 47.
McWhinney: "Incapable of conceptualization, truth, and honesty."
Bella Ross: So yeah, I don't know if we've changed his mind today, but-
McWhinney: Although he does brag that the series Neighbors averaged nearly 2.9 million cross-platform viewers per episode, a stunning performance for unscripted television, and that the show landed a season two.
McWhinney: I wonder if they're gonna bring him back as, like, a, a totem. Each, each season they have to have
Bella Ross: him. Oh, yeah.
McWhinney: You think so?
Bella Ross: I feel like they will. But yeah, he, you left us in the dust, Dan. Good for you. Good for you.
Evans: After the break, Jakob and the Voice of San Diego podcast crew talk orphaned bear cubs. Stay with us.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: And now we're joined in the studio by our fabulous environment reporter, Mackenzie Elmer. What's up, Mac?
Mackenzie Elmer: Hello. Hey, how's it going? It's
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: good to have you in here.
Mackenzie Elmer: Good to be here, yeah. I'll just say sometimes when I'm here I'm talking about dead animals- ... which makes people sad, so-
Bella Ross: Sometimes, all the time.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Trigger warning.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah. The critter
Bella Ross: coroner.
Mackenzie Elmer: The critter coroner. Critter coroner. Yeah, that's what we were talking about.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Yeah. That's our, that, that's our new segment for the podcast.
Mackenzie Elmer: Perfect. OK. Well, I better, man, I better get to work- ... and find some more stories.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Well, let's back pedal. Let our listeners know what we're talking about.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: You had a story about-
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah ...
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: two very adorable cubs, but-
Mackenzie Elmer: Mm-hmm ...
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: kind of a sad story.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah. I was just looking through the news, the environmental news around San Diego, and saw there were these two orphaned bear cubs at the Ramona Wildlife Center, which is owned by the San Diego Humane Society, was taking care of.
Mackenzie Elmer: and I kind of looked further into the story and learned that their mother, who had been nicknamed Blondie by the residents of Monrovia, had been, basically arrested by the California Fish and Wildlife Service and put down- Mm-hmm ... because she had apparently swiped at a woman who was walking her dog and scratched her.
Bella Ross: Mm-hmm.
Mackenzie Elmer: and at first I was very enraged, as many just reading that preliminary story was. U you know- Did we really have to euthanize the mother bear? Yeah And did these cubs have to be orphaned? Like why can't you just pick them up and move them to the forest? Monrovia is already right by the forest.
Mackenzie Elmer: It's right at the line of the San Gabriel Mountains, kind of where that wilderness area starts, at least the northern part of town.
Bella Ross: So like bears are like a part of life there.
Mackenzie Elmer: Well, sure. That's kind of the question. Yeah.as I, as I looked more into it, I kind of learned that, Monrovia ha- seems to think they have this sort of special relationship with bears- Huh
Mackenzie Elmer: or this special connection to bears. Yes, they are located next to the wilderness, but, it seems to me they've kind of become Disneyfied in a way. Hmm. Like they're, this bear was nicknamed Blondie, and I learned from the state that, yeah, she'd been living and denning underneath a home with her cubs for a couple of months, and the owners knew and didn't report it, which is illegal to like harbor wildlife in your or around your home.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Did they just think like, "Oh, cute"?
Mackenzie Elmer: I don't know. I guess, so when you talk to Monrovia residents, not, not all of them, of course. Mm-hmm. I spoke with one city councilman, Ed Belden I think his name is. And he was quite defensive about this bear, and he said, you know, you know, "These, these bears are just part of our community.
Mackenzie Elmer: we see them all the time. I see a bear more than I see a raccoon." Ooh. I know, which was kind of shocking. but-
McWhinney: Do you think that's like too many bears or too few raccoons?
Mackenzie Elmer: Bears eating the raccoons? No. I was gonna say, there
Bella Ross: might be a relationship there.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah, yeah. I should, I should specify these are black bears, not like grizzly bears, right?
Mackenzie Elmer: There aren't any grizzlies I don't think. I shouldn't say that. Someone's gonna email me and say, "Yes there is, right here." but black bears can get to be like 500 pounds, and they're not... Like where I'm from in Wisconsin, they're usually a lot smaller, but here they can get kind of big. So the bear had also, I guess the state had DNA evidence linking this bear to another attack of a- That was
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: crazy.
Mackenzie Elmer: I know. Cold
McWhinney: case evidence?
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Like Forensic Files.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah. It was a very like crime case situation. So they had collected DNA evidence from the first attack where this guy, I guess, was just sitting on his porch and the bear approached him and swiped at him. I don't understand how these, like, swipes happen.
Mackenzie Elmer: That's
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: crazy. Yeah. Blondie was in the system, though.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah, she was in the system, and they only linked it to her after they o- of course, captured her- Mm-hmm ... and, like, took her DNA and then ran it through the bear DNA database. But as
McWhinney: one does- I mean, what's so interesting kind of about your story and the way...
McWhinney: And the headline was, like, why we're to blame for these orphaned bear cubs. It's, it's that this town clearly, as you said, has this reverence for bears. I mean, there was Blondie, there was also, what, Cinnamon and another- Yeah ... another bear nicknamed Cinnamon.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah. I asked the city councilman what he knew about Blondie and how long she'd been in town, and he denied knowing how long or even knowing her.
Mackenzie Elmer: And I said, "Well, what other bears do you know?" And he was like, "Well, there's Cinnamon and there's Oreo." I was like, "Oh my God." There's just, there apparently are lots of them just roaming around. And the, the issue is where, I think the city and the state disagree heavily, is that these bears can become what's called habituated.
Bella Ross: Mm-hmm.
Mackenzie Elmer: Which officially means they are accustomed to human presence, you know, after they've been repeatedly exposed to humans, or, like, they s- associate humans with food sources.
Bella Ross: Mm-hmm.
Mackenzie Elmer: So they don't necessarily, like... So they lose their fear of humans, which is what a wild bear would have, and would generally protect the bear and the human from any kind of interaction.
Mackenzie Elmer: But apparently, as talking to the city councilman and the, the community and with their huge reaction to this bear's death, it's clear that they, some just feel these bears are like seeing a raccoon in your neighborhood, you know? And it's totally fine and- We, you know, they, I think they just kind of want these bears to be a part of the community, interestingly.
Bella Ross: So is the solution that people are supposed to just not engage with the bears? Or, like, you know, I imagine this community- Don't give them nicknames. Well, right. Like, I imagine this community has kind of like encroached on like the wildlife where the bears live. So like how do you prevent something like that?
Mackenzie Elmer: That was one argument the councilman made is that he's like, "We're not an encroaching city. We've been here since like 1857 or something." You know, like gold mining town sort of, sort of era. I don't know. so they've always lived, I guess, at the edge of this wilderness. I don't really know the truth behind like if bears have been there since the 1850s or not.
Mackenzie Elmer: Well,
Bella Ross: just kind of like, it's like the coyotes here. It's like, yeah, there's coyotes here, but we, I understand that they've always been here and they always will be here, and that's just kind of like part of life.
Mackenzie Elmer: Well, interestingly, so I did ask like, "Well, what are the rules? What do you guys tell citizens when they see a bear?
Mackenzie Elmer: Like what are they supposed to do?" Because when talking with the state they said, "You know, nobody reported the bear to us, which we could have then taken the bear family and relocated them to the wild," which would be the course of action they would prefer. And so like none of the city rules exactly say that.
Mackenzie Elmer: They do say if you see a coyote you can call the Pasadena Humane Society and they'll come pick him up. But for, there's nothing about a bear sighting. Mm. And I asked the councilman like, "What, what should you do if you see a bear? Should you report to the state?" He's like, "I don't know. If you see, if I see a deer should I call the state and report it to them?"
Mackenzie Elmer: And I was like, "I don't think that's the same thing." Getting really
McWhinney: sassy here. I mean, I,
Mackenzie Elmer: I- One is an apex predator. One is, you know-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: One's a 500 pound-
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah ...
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: animal.
Mackenzie Elmer: But the thing is, is it ends badly for the bear- Yeah ... and the human. I mean, the humans were getting injured- Slightly ... because these bears had habituated or become comfortable.
Mackenzie Elmer: And then, the bear gets put down. And this is kind of a trend like with, with this, these sorts of situations. And now
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: the cubs are orphaned.
Mackenzie Elmer: And now the cubs are orphaned, and now we have these specialists who are helping the bears in Ramona. I went over there to, to watch them get ready. They like put on a bear mask and they put on a fur coat and they throw teddy bears in the den and they get bear scented hay from some like zoo in Alpine or something.
Mackenzie Elmer: And they're, don't speak around the cage, and they're just trying to keep- Even though, like, they're clearly humans, they're, like, trying to associate, not associate with these bears and have the bears, like, not get used to looking- Mm-hmm ... at human faces or whatever, so.
McWhinney: Well, it's- It's such a bizarre thing. Do you think the bears are like, "We know these are humans."
McWhinney: All right. "These are some weird people."
Mackenzie Elmer: I, I actually thought about, you can get... Like, they do some sort of assessment at the end that says, you know, these bears are wild enough to be released, and if they're not-
McWhinney: Oh, wow It's like the SAT, right?
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah, and if they're not, they have to be relocated to some kind of a sanctuary or something.
Mackenzie Elmer: So I don't know. It'd be interesting to see how many of these bears actually do stay out in the wild. I did ask the state that- Right ... and they were like, "Well, you know, we put collars on them and track them until they, they fall off." So typically they said it's pretty successful. They stay out there for, you know- In the wild
Mackenzie Elmer: eight to nine months at least afterwards, but.
Bella Ross: No, the FOMO I got last week was crazy. Matt calls me at, like, 8:00 AM and was like, "Do you wanna go on this spontaneous bear adventure?" And I had the flu, so I couldn't. And then, like, couple hours later, I just get sent a picture of you wearing, like, a bear suit.
Mackenzie Elmer: It wasn't me. I wish they had let me- Oh, OK. I thought it was you ... put the bear suit on. No. It, it was one of the staffers. That's funny that you thought it was me,
Bella Ross: though. I was like, "I can't believe they're letting you go in there with the bears." I didn't realize there were bear cubs. I, I thought it was- I, I did ask.
Bella Ross: I did ask ... Mackenzie. Like, Mackenzie's, like, in her bear suit with her reporter notebook.
McWhinney: She's just- As long as she sprays down with, like, the bear pheromones or whatever. Yeah.
Bella Ross: I was so mad. I was like, "I should be in a bear suit- The pheromones ... right now, but I'm here, like- ... blowing my nose." Like- Yeah.
McWhinney: Yeah
McWhinney: this is a, this is a tough story for me because I, and we've talked about this a lot actually, I firmly believe that we are, as a species, encroaching on the ancestral lands of many different species. Like, I am actually... When, you know, a coyote eats a cat or something, I don't really have much sympathy.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Oh, Jakob, you're gonna say that.
McWhinney: You're
Bella Ross: gonna regret saying
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: that.
McWhinney: Yeah. Well, I mean, hey, sorry. Oh, Jakob. You're the one who has an outdoor cat. Hear the- That outdoor cat- ...
Bella Ross: emails coming in ...
McWhinney: that outdoor cat is doing much more damage- Have you seen the documentary
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Don't F With Cats?
McWhinney: Yes, but I'm- You're gonna be on the next one ... I'm not, I'm not putting one in a bag and smashing it.
Mackenzie Elmer: But it's true. But- coyotes run around North Park, like-
McWhinney: All the time ... in
Mackenzie Elmer: University Heights- I've never seen one ... on the sidewalks.
McWhinney: All the time. Wow. And I have chickens. But, but, but an outdoor cat does much more damage to the ecosystem, kills birds, kills all sorts of things than, than a coyote does. A coyote is doing what it should do, getting rid of the invasive species that are cats.
McWhinney: You're just like, "Getting rid of cats." Exactly. That is what I'm saying. Oh,
Bella Ross: OK. Jakob has a, a huge- Right ... anti-cat bias that's like- Yeah ... probably
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: be disclosing. He's
McWhinney: like, "Ugh." I
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: thought you were gonna talk about the possums.
McWhinney: I'm allergic to them, but-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: You love possums ... that's why.
McWhinney: That's fine. No, I also think that I, I'm also team coyote.
Mackenzie Elmer: But yeah, it's, it's true. I mean, we are certainly encroaching on, on their land, in so many ways. You know, I think the only reason why San Diego has these, like, coyotes is because we have these canyons that we can't build into, lucky for the wildlife. Otherwise, we'd be like LA and we'd be a huge- You know, a piece of concrete- Mm-hmm
Mackenzie Elmer: stretching for miles and miles.
McWhinney: And it's incredible. I mean, I... We've talked about this before, about how there were literal coyote scalping sort of bounties- Mm ... in, in San Diego. For, for years and years, there were people who paid if you brought in pelts for, of coyotes. Wow, I think you just- Because they were trying-
McWhinney: gotta write that
Mackenzie Elmer: story about once
McWhinney: in full ... yeah, 'cause they were trying to eradicate coyotes, and they just couldn't do it.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: There's your next critter corner.
McWhinney: Critter.
Mackenzie Elmer: Well, this Ramona Wildlife Center, they also accept coyotes and mountain lions and bobcats. So they also-
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Wow ...
Mackenzie Elmer: rehabilitate those animals too.
Mackenzie Elmer: And release
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: them back into the wild.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah, if they can. Yeah.
Bella Ross: No, I think the, the central irony for me of this story was that, you know, humans are kind of like what caused this bear to be euthanized, and now it's like up to humans to save these cubs-
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah ...
Bella Ross: in like the most unhuman way that they possibly can.
Bella Ross: Yeah. and hopefully it works out.
Mackenzie Elmer: Well, we're, you know, we're... It costs resources too. It's like, just relocate them and let them live a happy life with their mom. Yeah. Or we could, you know, euthanize them and then separate them. It's just, it's a mess. Yeah. But there really is no, I must say, I feel there is really no, like, wilderness anymore.
Mackenzie Elmer: We are just- Mm-hmm ... managing what is left. So that's kinda part of this, I think. And, one other thing I will say, I found research showing that, increased drought, which we are experiencing from climate change, is also a driver pushing animals out of the wilderness into, like, human neighborhoods because they're looking for water.
Mackenzie Elmer: So- Mm ... we are expecting to have kind of a rough summer. And so one might, one might expect more animal encounters. So h- stay tuned.
McWhinney: Mackenzie, as a good environment reporter, can always find the link back to climate change.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah, we have to. It's linked to everything. Give me something and I'll link it to climate change.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Well, thank you for coming in, Mac.
Mackenzie Elmer: Yeah, thanks, guys.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Thanks for listening to The Voice of San Diego podcast, the most popular public affairs podcast in San Diego that talks about a nudist on a reality show. I'm Andrea Sanchez Villafana, managing editor at Voice of San Diego. Bella Ross is our social media producer. Jakob McWhinney is our education reporter, and Matt Scrabby is the producer of this show.
Andrea Sanchez-Villafaña: Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next week.
Evans: Special thanks to Jakob McWhinney, Scott Lewis, Matt Skrappy, and everyone on the Voice of San Diego podcast for their help with this episode. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode of The Finest. And thank you so much for listening. If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a rating or comment.
Evans: It makes a real difference and helps stories like these reach more people The Finest is a production of KPBS Public Media in San Diego. I'm your host, Julia Dixon Evans. Our producer is Anthony Wallace, who also composed the score. Ben Redlawsk is our engineer, and Chrissy Nguyen is our editor. This episode was written and researched by Anthony and me.
